August 31, 2004: Off Night at the Garden

The Bush Twins say that they "are not very political." No kidding. The less said about them the better, except that I hope they did their own writing, because it's hard to believe anyone got paid for that adolescent patter that sounded like outtakes from a bad awards ceremony. Jokes are fine, indeed needed, but these are serious times and these are young college graduates, not teenyboppers. Next time a little more gravitas, please. Their mother was much better

But first a note of surrealism. I watched Arnold on a television set next to Pat Buchanan. This happened because I was getting agoraphobia/claustrophobia on the convention floor. A few of us bloggers had been escorted down into that terra interdita by the nice volunteer who is helping us. I visited with a friend in the California delegation. I had intended to watch the Governator from there, but I didn't have a seat and the crush was getting too much for me. I retreated to a media area when, earlier than I had expected, Arnold began speaking. I headed for the nearest TV to watch. Suddenly I realized someone was standing behind me. It was Pat. He had a scowl on his face. As we know, Schwarzenegger does not represent Buchanan's Republican Party. Nothing seems to make Pat happy these days. As Arnold began to lead the chant of "four more years," Buchanan spun on his heels as if repelled and stalked off, heading for the nearest microphone.

Unfortunately, Schwarzenegger, the first Republican I ever voted for, was not as inspiring as I had hoped. Maybe my own expectation game was too high. He hit the notes but that was about it. And the girlie men joke, even delivered in self-mockery, is getting a little tiresome. Still, I think Arnold's doing a good job as governor -- and that's more important than how great a speech he delivers at a convention. And I'm sure others reacted differently. I'm still thinking about McCain and, even more, Giuliani. He gave the speech of the year so far.

Comments

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Watching the twins made me uncomfortable - every bit as much as the Kerry daughters did. Maybe the children need to be kept away...

IMO Arnold was fine. That was exactly the type of speech he should have delivered, accompanied with just a little red meat and a lot of fun.

Buchanan is starting to look like he realizes he's being passed by.

Posted by: BobT at August 31, 2004 8:04 PM

arnold couldn't withstand comparison to rudy. i didn't expect him to. but i wasn't inspired by him either. i don't at all mind his self parody though, i rather enjoy it.

as a partisan wondering how the battleground indys will vote, i winced at his praise if nixon though.

Posted by: frendlydude2k at August 31, 2004 8:06 PM

Holy yuck. I can't believe you stood so close to Pat Buchanan. I need to go wash myself now.

Posted by: Hovig at August 31, 2004 8:10 PM

Buchanan being passed by? Aha! Tense trouble...

He's probably off muttering, "this is why we locked delegates out back in the Reform Party..."

Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 31, 2004 8:11 PM

Roger

You seem uncomfortable, but this is playing well out here in Ohio.

Ahnold was OK, the twins awful but fascinating in a trainwreck sort of way, and Laura just got my wife's vote. I guess we can vote a straight ticket from this house now.

In a weird way, the twins got my wife to listen to Laura. I'm still a stranger to the female mind. sigh.

Posted by: John Lynch at August 31, 2004 8:20 PM

Give the twins (and Laura) a break, if necessary.

I'm voting for the person on the ballot, not the associated soap opera.

The current fashion of trotting out the extended family seems a step backwards to me. The kids (all) have some growing up to do. The spouses married the human, and not the job opportunity.

(Well, with one notable exception in the recent historical record that we all know about.)

Policy and the candidate's character should be all that matter. Anything else is a distraction. I've not learned anything from the extended family bits from either convention that moved me one way or the other.

Damn, I hope this is a fad that fades.

Posted by: Mark Poling at August 31, 2004 8:23 PM

What is this? Dogpile on the twins night? Every blogger I bring up is slagging the girls.

Let's all take a step back and a deep breath.

Not every moment matters and not every syllable out of the mouths of babes counts.

They came on, they did some schtick, it was lame, they said hi to Grandma, they introduced Dad and they left.

They are 22 years old.... twenty two... they're feckless and their self-involved -- Not like any other twenty-two year old , are they?

We're not voting for the girls. We're voting for the father.

Let it slide. It means nothing.

Don't let New York get you down. Take a walk across the Brooklyn Bridge tomorrow morning.

Better still, take the subway to Clark Street and walk back into the city early over the Bridge.

It will clear your head and give you a boost.

I promise.

Remember, Roger, you are spending your days in the worst indoor space in the city.

I know, I worked across Seventh avenue at 11 Penn Plaza for five years.

Walk the city, let the neighborhoods roll by. Come out of the Garden and go to 32nd street. Walk east through little Korea, go all the way to 2nd Avenue. Turn right and walk south until you get to the 2nd Avenue Deli down by Judson Church, way down by Judson Church. Stop in for an egg cream and a corned beef sandwich, extra lean, on seeded rye. Have a pickled tomato and some cole slaw. You will emerge a new man. Clear out the skull. You'll be the better for it.

Trust me on this.

Posted by: Gerard Van der Leun at August 31, 2004 8:26 PM

I ignored the girls (I can't believe I just typed that).

Thought Arnold was terrific. Great moment.

Posted by: Solomon at August 31, 2004 8:26 PM

I think it is time for a female to step in here.

The girls were cute, not all that inspiring but they don't have to be. Laura seems like a good person. A good person that reflects well on her husband, unlike Tereza. This was for the ladies. Now I can not speak for all of them of course but it was nice.

I thought Arnold did very well and before we compare to him to the speakers last night just remember he is not a Senator/war hero nor was he the may of NYC when the WTC fell. The history is different. Arnold is the optimistic and inclusive one and he did that well.

Over all I thought it was pretty good.

But this is really all about Bush.

Cheney has to speak soon and I almost feel sorry for him, he gets such bad press. I guess some young woman got past security and got close to Cheney and started screaming about war profiteering. sheesh.

Posted by: Terrye at August 31, 2004 8:34 PM

An Althouse liked the twins. See I told you.

Posted by: Terrye at August 31, 2004 8:37 PM

Someone needed to give the girls the hook. The worst part was their script (or lack thereof). Roger - they needed you!

The rest of the evening was fine. My highlight, however, has still been Rudy. Incredible passion and getting to the heart of the matter.

I'm sure I'm prejudiced - but the Democrats, contrasted to the Republicans, seem negative, bitter, mean and frightened.

Even a die hard Democrat said to me this evening, "Kerry is toast. Toasty toasty...."

Let's hope he is right!

Posted by: Peggy Kaplan at August 31, 2004 8:40 PM

On Arnold,
I live in Pennsylvania (transplanted Texan - circa 2001), and this is the first time I have seen him speak for an extended period. Most of the country hasn't seen him speak in a polical setting. I thought he was great.
On the Twins,
being a middle-class American my entire life, I know people who have family structure just like the Bushes. They're daughters are not pro's, and I don't want to elect any parent who has professional political children when they're 21. I als like families where there is such well-adjusted, normal children. I got into trouble a little as a kid. So did just about everyone else. We just didn't have the national media on us. The spotlight has not changed them and I say Good.

On Laura,
She described a husband that many women (the majority, mind you, not those skinny types on the television) would cherish. She described a man of quiet strength and dignity. You may not see him that way, but as his wife, she does.

They may be rich, but they seem like Everyfamily, and have for years. I know people who act like they do, and I would cringe to watch my sisters introduce me. But they would come up with something similiar without professional help, but I would not attempt to force it on them. I trust that they know me well enough to not get my name wrong, I also love them enough not to try to turn them into a total political operative just because they love me enough to want to see me succeed. They are well-adjusted girls, and had some fun, and you know that they are doing it for love, not power.
Kerry looks, acts, talks, and is a rich man to his core. Bush looks, acts, talks and is a man happy with his life. He may be a wealthy man, but he doesn't remind you of it with his every breath.

Posted by: themarkman at August 31, 2004 8:44 PM

Roger:

In the "for what it's worth department:

My wife liked the twins and so did my five voting age daughters (aged 23-28) who found them more natural than the Kerry girls.

Their comments wemt something like:

They must have a cool dad.

All loved Laura. "She's normal"

Posted by: vnjagvet at August 31, 2004 8:46 PM

Perhaps my expectations were low, but I was pleasantly surprised by Arnold's speech. Mostly I liked that he was himself. Remember, he is a hugely popular actor (don't ask me why--I've never been able to see his appeal, but there you go . . . ), and I expect he got a lot of people to tune in tonight who might otherwise not have. And then he told them--in plain, simle language, and all the while sounding upbeat and proud and with just the right touch of self-deprecating humor--why he's a Republican and why they should vote for Bush.

Also, the guy is apparently very popular among Latin Americans--he got a big percentage of their vote in the recall election, and in spite of the fact that the major Democrat (outside of Davis) was an hispanic.

Posted by: penwil at August 31, 2004 8:56 PM

I'm totally contrarian on all this.

I loved Arnold. Aside from the tired "girly men" thing, I thought his speech was great, the best of the convention thus far, better than Giuliani's. I love Rudy, and I loved parts of his speech, but I think it needed tightening. He rambled and went on too long.

I thought the girls came off terribly. They seemed like ditzes. They were trying to make fun of their image and ended up confirming it. Laura seems like a very nice person but didn't add anything substantive.

The whole trotting the family out thing is silly when either party does it. AS's speech should have been at the end, as it was the only substantive one. With the lame personal color speeches, the whole evening was a wash, and I felt silly watching some of that stuff.

Laura is a kazillion times more likable than terayyyza, but the Kerry girls kick the Bush twins' asses. My image of the ideal first daughter runs a bit more studious and strait-laced than they are.

And Pat Buchanan hasn't been part of the party in years. He's an irrelevancy, Thank God.

Posted by: Eric Deamer at August 31, 2004 9:02 PM

The girls acted like real girls. My own 10-year-old would have loved this speech had she been able to pull herself away from that same band the Bush twins (do I capitalize "twins" now?) mentioned. Ditsy, adolescent, 'girlie', whatever. They were typical of American 20-year-olds. I suspect I'd be labeled with similar adjectives had I been asked to speak in front of several million empowered and confused Americans.

I've never commented here but I've been reading Ol' Roger's blog for quite some time. I'm getting the feeling that he's a fish out of water at the convention. As if he is having a Steiner "dark night of the soul"... Just remember: they say that when you come out the other side you will be enlightened.

:)

I'm with you. Something doesn't feel right and there is a that tell tale tingle of hopeless inevitability in all this. The question of "what is right" (or, actually, "real") weighs heavy on the mind...

As for Laura-- she's the only one that is yet to be tar and feathered and you have to respect that. She is a swell Lady whom I respect greatly.

I'm voting for Bush.

Posted by: NoseWad at August 31, 2004 9:09 PM

Roger, you must miss your family and LA. You seem to be depressed in NYC and the overwhelming crowds at MSG. Relax, take a breath and try to remember the flight back home will return three hours of your life. I don't like to travel away, either...but, I didn't start a blog or get press credentials, either.

Posted by: Plinypere at August 31, 2004 9:13 PM

Kinda nice to see all this reflected in a party we can all get along in, just like Arnold said. Roger, I don't agree with you much of the time, I don't agree with Arnold, and there are a few points with which I disagree with GW. Heck, I dont even subscribe to Pat Buchannan's viewpoints. But it's nice to know that we all agree that without a strong front against terrorism, perhaps more fundamentally against random violence in any form, that none of our differences would bear discussing.

Nice effort at blogging it from the front line, Roger!

Posted by: Rich at August 31, 2004 9:17 PM

Well, I thought Arnold's speech was absolutely electrifying. It brought the house down (at least what I could see on teevee) in a way that wasn't even approached at the Democrat Convention. This was a convention moment like the ones I remember from the 1980 Republican convention (when I was 15). There's got to be a few folks who perceive that this is simply the winning team, the otpimistic team, and the "happening" team, and are thereby attracted to it. That will be worth something on election day. Also, yeah, the twins weren't great, but they weren't awful. I'd never heard them speak before. They're pretty cute. This should have a disarming effect at some deep neurological level for the folks who imagine the Repubs as being evil personified, setting up a bit of cognitive dissonance for some folks.

Reflecting on how things have been going, I see that it's interesting that Bush has let his opponents demonize and demonize and demonize him for a very long time, but he's saved his real campaign response until now. Seeing and hearing all of these folks at the convention is quite a jarring contrast to all of the slander. It might be like waking up from an irrational dream for many viewers.

Posted by: Matteo at August 31, 2004 9:17 PM

The twins were fine, as if it even matters; people around their own age liked them, I'll bet. And women, especially women with kids or grandkids, found a lot to like and to connect with in Laura Bush's speech. Even Dad's intro hit the right note of slightly embarrassed pride and sincerity. A very nice family, and authentically middle American. Kerry can hit the light switch on his way out.

Posted by: Byron00 at August 31, 2004 9:23 PM

Had the twins tried to say something substantive, they would have really sounded phony. This was them, and I admire anyone that is not afraid to just be him/herself. Laura is the reason W has done anything of substance with his life. He really loves her, unlike the Bill-Hill charade.

Arnold, too, was himself. Who else but someone telling the truth would mention Nixon in a positive way? Reagan inspired me, and turned me into a conservative. But I always looked at Reagan as some God-like figure. W and Arnold are inspiring too, but they seem like everyday Americans like me doing the best they can. For the first time since I left the Democrats, I feel at home.

Posted by: insatty at August 31, 2004 9:30 PM

My first mate wants to vote for Arnold. We live in Illinois.

I especially loved the bit about the wounded service man. Compare it to the Kerry bug out.

My 13 year old daughter (beauty with excellent brains) liked Arnold too. So that is how you get the woman vote - attract them with a man and then "girly" talk from the women. Good psychology.

Posted by: M. Simon at August 31, 2004 9:30 PM

Roger, bubbeleh, why all the kvetching about the twins? This is classic vaudeville strategy. You open with a few strong acts to nail the audience in their seats, then a kid act, then an animal act (substitute a few close-ups of Michael Moore), then the ventriloquist and his dummy (OK, Hugh Hewitt already interviewed MacAuliff), THEN you bring out the star for his big solo turn and the major production number to close out the house...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 31, 2004 9:36 PM

Buchanan was just on Greta he said the neoconservatives told Bush what to expect after liberating Iraq and they were wrong so they need to be fired from the government.

So Greta said -
"So shouldn't the President be fired he is the one who made the decision in the end?"
So Pat says -
"No, JfK told his handlers that if Bay of Pigs happened in England he would be fired but in America they get fired."(nice rationalization Pat)

So to bjuy Pat's logic you have to believe that Bush and Cheney (emphasis mine) are being overwhelmed and dictated to by these clever neocons?
Maybe you could sell the Bush part which would however entail making Bush the moron his critics claim and Pat would of course take umbrage with...
And Cheney being dictated to or swayed over by these "Neocons" of cleverness...
A guy whose has been in government before under Gerald Ford and is an extremely intelligent, stubborn and successful businessman on his own.

So Pat then goes on to tell Greta on how much he does agree with Bush on... yadayadayadayada....
"he just needs to get rid of those neocons"

Pat's been stumping like crazy his book trying to be relevant and unfortunately he gets airtime on many shows, Hannity, Ingraham, Fox, MSNBC etc..

Regarding Bush's daughers -
Roger, Chris Wallace (Mike's son) of Fox thought Bush's daughters were excellent and he thought they humanized both their mother and father.

Posted by: Mike_Nargizian at August 31, 2004 9:45 PM

The twins weren't there to please the policy wonks. Lots of people hate Bush in such a way as to make him inhuman. Yes, the twins were all too human, but I suspect that was vetted and intentional.

I thought Arnold played well on TV. He was optimistic, enthusiatic and personable. I thought his speech was very successful. I suspect that he will now retire the "girlie men" line though. Roger, I would think you'd be pleased that Pat B. is unhappy with so much of the convnetion.

Bush is supposed to give his speech in the round, so I've heard. I hope you are able to find a good situation that could allow you to be on the floor when he speaks. But in any event it's great to read your thoughts from the scene.

Posted by: Barry Dauphin at August 31, 2004 9:49 PM

Roger;

You are right about the twins. They were a waste of airtime. Laura was fine but I have not liked the idea of spouses speaking unless they are elected or government officials. This need to turn the conventions into a Oprah segment is stale and I hope it will end soon. But i think you are missing the boat on Arnold. Yes, the movie references are getting old but the rag to riches immigrant story is not. Especially when you compare it to the doom and gloom two america's theme of Edwards. We get so much of the America is the root of all evil in the MSM and the universities that Arnold's unabashed love for this country never gets old. He is too stiff as an actor to fake it. His love is real and it is refreshing. It also goes over well with the immigrant community IMHO.Rudy will be the highlight of the convention and Arnold does not compare to him but I think he did a good job

Posted by: Kevin P at August 31, 2004 10:16 PM

Roger:
Regarding Pat, he is a bitter fossil and he will fade away eventually. It is hard to work your way back into a party after you have backstabbed it.

Posted by: Kevin P at August 31, 2004 10:19 PM

I agree with Peggy Kaplan, mostly.

I could only force myself to watch one partial night of the Democrat convention, and that only because I had seen Obama mentioned as a rising star. On that one night I did watch, I saw nervous angry people.

That is not what I saw tonight. Optomism is a good thing; I wish I had a lot more of it than I do.

Posted by: TmjUtah at August 31, 2004 10:35 PM

I have to say I found the twins a riot, as in a riot of silliness and evidence that in fact you don't have to work hard in life to do well. to watch the daughters of a mulitmillionaire only be able to laugh as giddy teenagers only reminded me that they could barely get into college and were clearly not, despite the best possible benefits of unearned wealth and connections, able to make it into a university that was competitive. The poor dears.
i loved the sex in the city comments, ya could hear a pin drop in the texas delegation.

Posted by: steve811 at August 31, 2004 10:39 PM

Hmmmm... just because you're a giddy airhead doesn't mean you might not also be a reasonably intelligent person with a 4.0 gpa. Some of the goofiest people I know are mechanical engineers.

Posted by: lindenen at August 31, 2004 10:49 PM

No, in their case it's pretty plainly a case of being giddy and none too bright. A really subpar performance for children of such a background, to put it mildly.
Still, I loved the hush that came over the crowd with the sex and city remarks, that only provided additional entertainment in addition to the failure of America's better classes to produce outcomes that one would expect.

Posted by: steve811 at August 31, 2004 10:56 PM

"Nothing seems to make Pat happy these days."

Best news I've heard all day. The post was worth reading for that alone.

Posted by: asher at August 31, 2004 11:00 PM

Oh my gosh, even more depressing, one of them even swung her affirmative action connections, got into Yale, and still is incapable of carrying off the act...

Posted by: steve811 at August 31, 2004 11:09 PM

Buchanan is living proof that it is not hard to go from radical right to radical left (or vice-versa). Indeed, it might be easier than it is to go from radical anything to moderate of either side. You think about his issues--nativist, anti-trade, isolationist, at least the appearance of anti-semitism, and what do you think? I'm hearing the Far Left. Buchanan still has the culture war stuff, but aside from that you'd be hard-pressed to find a lot of differences on substantive things between him and lefty icon Dennis Kucinich.

Posted by: Pat Curley at August 31, 2004 11:20 PM

I should have ignored this one but couldn't.

evidence that in fact you don't have to work hard in life to do well. to watch the daughters of a mulitmillionaire only be able to laugh as giddy teenagers only reminded me that they could barely get into college and were clearly not, despite the best possible benefits of unearned wealth and connections, able to make it into a university that was competitive.

I and many other guys would line up to date the blonde if I were 22, even 28.

The horror they'll both marry good looking guys get good jobs and they apparently had a great time in college.

Posted by: Mike_Nargizian at August 31, 2004 11:41 PM

Isn't the internet great...
Sitting on a rainbow actually, which one could say it appears the Bush girls, certainly Jenna is sitting on... ain't it great to be 22.
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/FRANK-SINATRA/ive-got-the-world-on-a-string.html

I've got the world on a string
Sitting on a rainbow
Got that string around my finger
What a world, what a life, I'm in love

I've got a song that I sing I can make the rain go Anytime I snap my finger What a world, what a life, I'm in love

Life's a beautiful thing
Long as I hold that string
I'd be a silly so-and-so
If I'd ever let you go

Posted by: Mike_Nargizian at August 31, 2004 11:47 PM

Awww I dunno Roger, I think he did pretty dern good.. It wasn't a home run like Giuliani's game breaker, but it was a solid tripple.

I think the odd-robotic-off-key: "four more years" Ahnald belted out at the end may have squashed the gravitas a bit for you..

I understand.

StreetGOP

Posted by: StreetGOP at September 1, 2004 12:11 AM

First comment, longtime lurker:

I thought McCain was good.

I thought Arnold was outstanding.

I thought Giuliani was triumphant. Superb. He was effective supporting Bush and equally effective skewering Kerry and Bush's antagonists in Europe for their appeasement strategy toward terrorists. The speech was not only outstanding, it was delivered tremendously, and amazingly dead center on point as to why people should vote for Bush.

I disagree with Roger on Arnold. I thought his jokes at the start were a bit obvious but they were genuinely funny and that's always welcome at these sort of events. I thought from there the speech was both heartfelt and also addressed party concerns about Arnold. Arnold knows the middle loves him. But Arnold made the case for himself as a Republican to the Republicans, and then deftly turned the issue back toward the audience and assured people that _they_ were Republicans.

The MSNBC panel (Andrea Mitchell, J.C. Watts, Meachan from Newsweek and Scarborough) when Matthews pinned them down and forced them to pick one, it was a 2-2 tie between Rudy and Arnold for best speech. I think that's generous to Arnold for sure as Giuliani set an absurd bar, but I thought Arnold's delivery was superior to McCain and while his content was not quite as good, that it came relatively close speaks volumes to how good a job he did.

It was unfortunate, as one pundit put it, that the kids and Laura Bush had to follow him as they had little choice but to drain the air out of the room.

Posted by: Mr Vee at September 1, 2004 12:19 AM

MOORE'S 2 ARTICLES IN USA TODAY -

Roger what's your opinion of Moore's 2 articles written about the Convention in USA Today. Fyi, apparently he had enough and is leaving the Convention.

The GOP doesn't reflect America
Michael Moore, Filmmaker
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2004-08-30-moore-gopamerica_x.htm

The Ebert and McCain show By Michael Moore http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-08-31-moore_x.htm

Moore left out his own radical views and what he would do and how he would do it. For instance, how he would deal with Arafat, the UN, how he would pay for Health Insurance, how he would tax companies, what he would do for 'clean water', etc.... He presents himself as a moderate and not a self hating American who goes to France and belittles and demeans America and Americans to people who are all envious of America.

The big ruse wasn't as much the Republican Convention, as it was Moore trying to present himself as a moderate.
Mike

Posted by: Mike_Nargizian at September 1, 2004 1:47 AM

Steve811

If you're trolling for this site, stop it.
Adults play here and you'll need to stay at the children's table unless you mature.
Try to be mature and in a couple of years you can sit at the 'big people' table, o.k.?

Best of luck with that.

Posted by: Birkel at September 1, 2004 2:05 AM

We can debate the quality of these debates until the cows come home. The only thing that truly matters are their impact on the swing voters. Will the Republican convention push up the President Bush’s poll numbers by at least another 5-6 points? I think the answer is yes.

Another big question: how will John Kerry be received by the active and retired military personnel later today? Unless he successfully wins them over---the Massachusetts senator’s campaign may be effectively over.

Posted by: David Thomson at September 1, 2004 3:38 AM

I just managed to find a transcript of Arnolds speech. I havent heard it, it was in the middle of the night here, and I also have had some problems with my satellite dish last few days.

My perspective is probably similar to a lot of immigrants in the US, even though I dont live there, so I thought I should share my thoughts.

I thought Arnolds speech was very powerful. Anyone that has lived close to socialism can identify with his story about living close to the Soviet Union, being afraid to be taken away at a whim. Even if you never saw a Soviet tank or soldier, and was never afraid for your life, you'd identify with the feeling of government suddenly taking control of your life, and deciding over it. I certainly did, and I could easily identify with the scared young boy sitting in a car.
The contrast to America that produces is very striking. Arnold speaks about coming to America, full of hopes and dreams, a country with freedom and opportunity he dreamed about for years. Then he hears a politician speaking the same lines he heard back home, and immidiately decides to support the other guy, who speaks of the America he's dreamed about. I immidiately thought of Kerry, who to me sounds very "socialist", and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people made the same connection.

I think that a lot, if not most, immigrants in the US, and families with strong memories of "the old country" will feel it to be a very persuasive speech.
It's straight to the heart, it's honest, and it contains a lot of truths that simply aren't told as often as they should. Arnold illustrated just how ridicolous it is to cast the US as "bad guy", and how great the US is.

My immidiate parallell was John F Kennedys "Freedom has many difficulties, and democracy is not perfect but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in, to prevent them from leaving us!"
It's simple, honest and obvious, and everyone listening to it knows it's true.

I was taken by Arnolds speech just from reading it. The few obvious jokes just made it more personal and honest to me. Then again, I'm not a voter...

Posted by: Erik at September 1, 2004 3:54 AM

Thoughts:

In my opinion, Arnold was fantastic. The republicans landing him is a big deal. He played into his image without coming off goofy- I think what many people forget is that his ability to laugh at his image (even when he's governor) is a big part of his appeal - a sense of humor counts (seen also in Rudy's speech last night). Arnold's a self made immigrant- I thought the most important point he made was that despite America's alleged negative image overseas, America is still the place immigrants dream of.

The Bush twins were cute and stupid- they did their jobs- frankly, I suspect they were thrown up there for the sole purpose of showing the 18-25 voting block that the republicans are not such stodgy old farts that they won't let the twins act silly for 10 mins. Plus, I'd like to meet young Barbara- gorgeous and Yale educated- RAWR!

Was I the only one underwhelmed by Laura's speech ? As someone noted above, its quite possible that I was not the demographic she was appealing to anyway - my GF thought she was down to earth pretty and classy- high praise indeed. The contrast to Theresa Kerry is striking- if anything, woman seem to be able to identify with Laura- she just doesn't seem to ... foreign ?

if I had my way, Arnold would have ended the evening but I suppose you can't make the first lady go on last. We've still got Zell, Cheney to go and honestly, the one guy I'm looking forward to is Tommy Franks on Thursday - I saw him with Hannity last night and I think letting him talk about what he saw in Iraq and all the things the media are not reporting thats happening over there (ie the positive things) is a smart move by the GOP. I want to see the press go after Franks as a republican schill- that backlast would be shocking to them.

Bush by 8 points.

Posted by: Matt Evans at September 1, 2004 4:50 AM

Pat Buchanan is a dinosaur who represents a decreasing number of the “I’ll Take My Stand” Old Right. The Republican Party marginalized him some ten years ago. There is no logical reason for Buchanan to keep landing employment on the cable networks. What audience is he attracting? No, he simply survives because the major media feel comfortable and unthreatened by his presence. Nixon’s loyal adherent is a relic of a past era that will never return. Roger Simon recognizes Buchanan because both men are about the same age. The younger generation barely know of him. Buchanan is rapidly becoming a footnote in the history books.

Posted by: David Thomson at September 1, 2004 5:33 AM

Come on guys/gals, give the twins a break. I thought that the speech was OK, except for the groan-fest where they basically ran through the names of the WH staff. This is part of the warmup, not the main event. Laura did her job - I don't think that the family fest is a great idea but take it as a given, and Laura did a good job. You don't want the First Lady to be too slick or look like a professional pol, or it starts to look like Hillary. People know that Laura is smart and capable, but they LIKE to know that only one person in that relationship has the level of narcicism necessary to be a professional pol.

Arnold was fantastic - better than McCain, though not up to Rudy. The story about the soldier missing a leg who wants to get back into combat is similar to stories I heard from an Army orthapedic surgeon in July. There is an implicit contrast with a guy who goes home on 1 good and 2 cheesy purple hearts. His immigrant's tale was also great - and speaks to people that the GOP has to reach.

Oh - and screw Buchanan - he just gives true conservatives a bad name. He's an opportunistic demagogue who would be disturbingly at home posting on DU.

Posted by: holdfast at September 1, 2004 5:58 AM

Pat's time has come and gone, and he's just a bitter old man.

I thought Arnold did well, but perhaps I had lower expectations going in than Roger. He's not a bad speaker, despite the accent, and he has a pretty strong aura about him.

The twins were cringe inducing. I don't know how else to put it. I couldn't even watch that slow train wreck.

Posted by: Akira at September 1, 2004 5:59 AM

I think Laura comes across as a wonderful and wholly authentic person; she reminds me, in a positive way and perhaps unsurprisingly, of the best teachers I had as a kid.

I didn't mind the twins at all, perhaps because I have 22-year-old twins (boys in my case).

Ahnuld was terrific; I agree with those commenters here who have said the story of his childhood terror is powerful and convincing. He utterly refutes, by his mere presence, much of the victimization posture that today's Democrats -- my party!!! :-( -- try to pass off as a political philosophy.

Jamie Irons

Posted by: Jamie Irons at September 1, 2004 6:10 AM

Terry, thank you-----

I think you should change your onscreen name to Voice of Reason.

I love the Bush girls, and I liked them onstage at the convention. Their speech was lame, but I assumed they didn't think it up themselves. Even if they did, as Gerard pointed out, they're 22.

If I'm not mistaken, John Kerry was 27 when he made his Winter Soldier statement to the Senate. So the Bush girls are doing fine by my book.

And I should add that I liked that "We had a hamster, too" line. I'm guessing they did think that one up.

I actually am voting for the children, to a degree.

Every time I see Barbara & Jenna Bush I think, "They turned out well."

For me, that's a huge plus. Whether or not it should be a huge plus, I don't know. Look at Reagan's kids. OTOH, I have never become a "Reagan convert," as others who have shifted rightward have.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 6:15 AM

During the CA recall, I got to attend the Arnold rally in San Bernardino. Arnold was very good, even if his speech is not "nuanced" he has the ability through sheer force of his optimism and good cheer to connect to people. As I watched him last night, all I could think "Damn, he's getting better!"

By the way, he was not endorsing Nixon (even though that's what some would like to believe of that line), he was speaking to what the ideas were coming through to him as a non-English speaking immigrant having the Humphrey/Nixon debates translated to him.

Ok, I cringed at the twins a bit, but you just had to see that they were not the overgroomed, coached, affected trustfund/Hollywood brats that one easily encounters in El-Lay.. the type of kids that were never kids. And giggly self-consciousness has not a thing to do with IQ or brains, so I don't know where some get off saying they didn't earn their way into college (was anyone saying that about Chelsea and Stanford?)

Laura is a class act. She's the teacher you meet at back-to-school night and start thanking God she's at the school for your kid and would wish your kid could have her through college! No contest on what would happen if she and Tah-ree-zha were in the same room.

I watched some of the DemCon, and the basic difference I'm getting from these two events is that the Dems were just so much anger, doom and gloom and the Republicans are having a great happy time.

Posted by: Darleen at September 1, 2004 6:43 AM

Wow, my comments on the twins who never had to work for their wealth and can drink, party, and stay wealthy for the rest of their giddy lives really rubbed people the wrong way I guess. I'm sorry, the twins are shining examples of what hard work in life can bring, nothing but lifetime success.

Posted by: steve811 at September 1, 2004 6:50 AM

steve811

Slamming on a couple of happy 22 y/o's reflects more on you than them.

Get help for the green-eyed monster.

Posted by: Darleen at September 1, 2004 6:54 AM

I watched all three speeches. I liked what Arnold had to say and he really bought it to life for me. I was waiting for him to bring up the "I'll be back" line and wasn't disappointed. I wonder how Maria was feeling up there.

As for the twins' speech, yes, it was a bit lame. But hey, they're young and just learning their way around the adult world, so cut them some slack. They deserve credit for getting up in front of that large audience and the national television. I did wonder who wrote the speech - it looks like they had a lot of input into it. And besides, it's their father's last campaign, so they deserved to have a shot in the public. Plus, it put a human face on the family - their kids are just like every American couple's children.

I really liked Laura and how she handled herself. She is a very classy lady, and her speech had that calm, measured, reassuring approach. I felt like I could sit down with her over a cup of coffee and ask for advice on marriage, what is the best education for my child who would turn out to be very gifted and bored to tears at the average public school, what is so great about the current #1 fiction best seller. And feeling that she can represent our country on her visits abroad with a dignified manner.

Posted by: Lola at September 1, 2004 6:58 AM

Gerard Van der Leun,

Now why'd you have to go and make me all homesick for New York?

Posted by: ricpic at September 1, 2004 7:10 AM

“Wow, my comments on the twins who never had to work for their wealth and can drink, party, and stay wealthy for the rest of their giddy lives really rubbed people the wrong way I guess.”

Are you confusing them with Paris and Nicky Hilton? You are right that the twins are wealthy and will never have to worry about putting bread on the table. Nonetheless, they have been brought up in a tradition which pushes them to excel. These young ladies are expected to do something special with their lives. The concept of noblesse oblige may seem corny to some---but in the Bush family this concept is taken very seriously.

Posted by: David Thomson at September 1, 2004 7:12 AM

Lindenie:

I resemble that remark...

Arnold did a very good job of explaining what the Republican Party is about. It is the party of Madisonian republicanism, free markets and opportunity. Too many people get hung up on the social liberal/social conservative divide with in the party accept the general view propagated by the MSM. The basis for this intra-party disagreement is informed not by interest group politics but by interpretations of individual versus community rights. People forget that the original support for abortion came not from liberal Democrats but from Conservative Republicans. The Republicans are the "big tent" party. We accept differences in opinion even as we hotly debate them. The Democrats measure "diversity" in the same way Stalin did, i.e., a collection of the right mix of the community all nodding their heads in agreement with the great leader.

Posted by: jerry at September 1, 2004 7:19 AM

I didn't get to pay much attention to the convention. I saw somebody (Hannity/Colmes?) interviewing Rangle. He came out with the tired old "Bush is dumb, look at the comparative college records" tripe and then when the interviewer pushed him a bit on Kerry's record he "didn't want to dwell on the past... need to look forward... blahblah."

The Bush Twins caused me to tune out and I didn't manage to get tuned back in. Their fine, I just don't much care about politicians kids. If any were to come out and tell us their dad was an abusive asshole I might care, but that's not the case here. The Kerry Twins are stuffy aristocrats. The Bush Twins seem "real" by today's standards of the young people I have access to. Minor data point, possibly a distant tie-breaker kinda thing.

I care a bit more about candidates spouses. Laura Bush strikes me as woman I'd be proud to count as a friend - the real deal. Says something very positive about her husband. Teresa Heinz-Kerry is petulant billionaire. If she bought me a pocket mansion or allowed me to use one of her remote vacation estates I'd pretend to like her, but otherwise whatever she says or does is so far removed from anything I care about that I discount her. Her choice of husbands might say something about her, not sure what it says about him.

Arnold did fine. To me he seemed to be issuing the Engraved Invitation to the go-getter crowd: The Republican Party is a better place for you than the establishment, aristocratic, class conscious Democratic Party. Pretty much inviting those who are considering jumping in the pool to comeon down, Hoss, 'cause the water's fine.

I saw Buchanan interviewed a couple times. I can't abide the man. Some think his time has passed, I don't see why he ever had a time. I don't get it. But at least I see where the "fire anybody we don't like who can pin any hint of making any mistake, anywhere!" comes from. He'll be marching with the Anti-global Moonbats and Nader next. Good riddance, they can have him.

Picked up the NYT "P" section for the heck of it. There really is no need to describe how far they've gone in abandoning any pretense of being objective. I can barely get past the second or third graph of any article - assuming I can get passed the headline. If anyone's got Section P handy, have a look at Nagourney on P8. Have a look at the second paragraph of his article describing the "two-sided template" of the Republican strategy:

The first part is to batter Mr. Kerry, as Mr. Guiliani did with almost ruthless abandon to open the convention...

If Guiliani's attack on Kerry meets Nagourney or the Dems idea of "battering with ruthless abandon", they really need to consider growing or buying a hide.

And the whining about the Purple Heart Bandaids?!? What a bunch of humorless dopes. At least they gave us the photo of Kerry windsurfing. I guess he's got the self-indulgent, no end of expensive hobbies voting block locked up.

And check out Alessandra Stanley (whoever she is) on P9. Second graph...

Laura Bush has also tried to keep her assistance to her husband vieled, but she was unmasked this week...

Somebody above said the Dems seem bitter and angry. They are. Add ethically lost in the winderness. Add humorless also.

As to Kerry's campaign team shakeup... their gonna go really hardcore on the attack machine while leaving the whining segment in place. Yeah, that'll work. Rove just recently called down to have his weapons and ammo brought out of storage and these guys think they're gonna get tough. And when they're all lying there in 2 more months with the crap kicked out of them they'll be whining about how mean their opponents were. The Crybaby Party, that's about what they've fallen to.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 7:21 AM

OMG! Don't miss the NYT's P10! Some dope named Andy Newman is fretting 'cause The Dancers are Ready. Where are the GOP Laps?

The screwed up, sexually oppressed Republicans aren't letting their hair down with lap dancers enough! And to few who do don't have much cash to throw around. Wow, pow.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 7:31 AM

Knuckle--

I thought the protestors wanted all the Republicans to go home. Make up your mind, New York!

Posted by: Fresh Air at September 1, 2004 7:37 AM

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Catherine With a C but No AZ, this one's for you ;)

I'm not a Dick Morris fan (call me a prude but the idea of sucking toes gets my gag reflex going - I love my Better Two-Thirds dearly but she can keep her feet and her toejam, thank you very much) but I happened to pass by the TV when somebody was talking to him and he was going on about what a "triumph" (or some similar extremely positive word) Bush's education policy has been and how Clinton would have killed to pull off something like that wrt education policy. As we've talked about before, NCLB is something that at least gets me to reconsider my well-developed abhorence to the Feds sticking their noses and our money into things better left to the locals, so I the comment perked my ears. I don't know whether or not Bubba even tried to get anything significant in place wrt to education policy, so I can't comment on whether or not he would have killed for such a success as NCLB.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 7:47 AM

Arnold's speech, the twins' low brow moment. Laura .... blah, blah. BFD.
We haven't been attacked in YEARS. We are caught up in the minor details of an election campaign.

"Schwarzenegger, the first Republican I ever voted for"
Makes two of us. Shoot, was in a Repub campaign headquarters for the first time in my life as well last week. Picked up a Bush/Cheney '04 button.

I'm proud of my differences with the President on social/domestic issues. Proud to give unqualified support to someone I disagree with. Proud of my country. Proud of my fellow Americans. Proud of my fellow denizens in the blogosphere. Lighting the way to a new tomorrow.

Blog on!

Posted by: ELMO at September 1, 2004 7:48 AM

Fresh Air,

I guess they'd like them to leave town and also leave their money if they had any (which party is the party of the rich again?)

On further thought I may have been unfair to Mr. Newman by calling him a dope. He did, after all, get the NYT to pay him to hang out in a Gentleman's Club chattin' up the girls. On the other hand, however, he seems to have believed the "graduate student" schtick, so I guess the jury's still out.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 7:52 AM

I was going to say this is OT, but it isn't. Rather THIS is what this election is all about:

MOSCOW (AFP) - Gunmen with explosives strapped around their waists took more than 200 people hostage at a school in southern Russia near war-torn Chechnya and threatened to blow up the building if the security forces moved in.

It could be happening here. We know it could happen here. This, and worse. What would Kerry do in a situation like this? Call France? The UN?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040901/ts_afp/russia_ossetia_040901132655

Posted by: penwil at September 1, 2004 8:15 AM

I had never seen a complete Arnold Speech--I thought he was awfully good--and my wife loved it. I enjoyed the optimism and the sense of humor--I can see why he blew Gray Davis away--He was even, dare I say it, Reaganesque with a Teutonic accent. Compare his sense of optimism and humor with the Dems--

Guiliani was superb IMHO--clearly on the fast track for the 2008 run--and his recitation of terrorism going back to Munich must have certainly touched a chord in the Jewish voters. why do I find myself salivating over the prospect of a Rudy--Hillary contest in 2008? Oh well--first things first. Clearly the turmoil in the Kerry camp says a lot about him--if he can't run a campaign staff, how will he run the country?

Posted by: RogerA at September 1, 2004 8:18 AM

I've made the rounds of the blogs this morning and nearly all disliked the twins' performance. This surprised me because I thought bloggers of all people would see past the hokey script written for the twins and have some comments on their obvious love for their parents and family, their willingness to campaign, their lack of polish being an asset, etc. So they're not natural comedians, but they've got enough gumption to face a crowd and live television and do pretty well. As for more 'seriousness in these serious times', that's for the professionals, or the oh-so-earnest-Democrats. We got a look at the twins, and that's that.

Podium speeches by the wife and kids are what we get when the campaign process has become less smoke-filled back room and more popularity contest.

Posted by: Retread at September 1, 2004 8:24 AM

Roger

Some of the pundits, I think it was MSNBC, had a brief comment about Arnold's speech. They segued into a discussion of people, personalities, and policies that are bigger than traditional parties (Dem, Repub.)

I was intrigued by this thought. It seems to have some validity. The traditional party delineations are too confining for some of these things.

It may be a Repub Convention, but there are a variety of ideas and policies that hold greater validity than the party. The party is currently supporting them, either in platform, or in person, but you get the feeling that the party's endorsement is not completely relevant. The idea, or person, or policy, is going forward with or without.

Is this something you can get a feel for there, or is this too abstract to actually see on the floor?

Posted by: John Lynch at September 1, 2004 8:27 AM

Hmmm... since we've spent some time and effort recently arguing over legalisms and traditionalisms and, I assert, where they meet and diverge, (and, of course, Ahnald) I'd be interested in what folks think about the suggestion of a constitutional amendment to change the requirement that a president be a natural born citizen to something like naturalized for 25 years.

Personally, I'm agin it, but I'm just a hopeless and hidebound traditionalist. Without going down my normal never ending diatribe, I'll just state my druthers as being that presidents be at least "second generation" Americans.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 8:28 AM

I agree with many of the foregoing comments in re: Buchanan. Even as a fairly conservative and fairly religious person, Buchanan, Falwell, etc are not representative of the new Republican party. As noted, they've been mostly exiled, not because conservatives don't believe religious values still have a place in government but because the extremism by Buchanan and Co. alienate many many voters. The majority of arguments I have with moderates and liberals about the makeup of the GOP typically end up in "its a bunch of religious freaks, look at Buchanan, look at Falwell". Frankly, the GOP needs to appeal to moderate voters in order to win elections and Buchanan has the same affect on many moderates and liberals that Mike-AL Moore has on conservatives.

Posted by: Matt Evans at September 1, 2004 8:31 AM

On the Great Bush Twins debate

My totally non-scientific, anecdotal evidence suggests that all those who are in any way closer to their age: myself, my girlfriend, Jonah Goldberg, Kathryn Jean Lopez, Karol Sheinin, and many others who are gen-X or gen-Y, found them to be awful and cringe-inducing.

Whereas all those who found them to be charming, winsome, "real", "like normal 22-year olds" etc., such as: Gerard Van der Leun, Catherine above, Ann Althouse etc. etc. are roughly the age of people who might likely have daughters that age. (Roger is of course an exception to this rule.)

If there's any truth to the above observation (and I have no idea if there really is) what does that say exactly? Do middle-aged people have a really skewed idea of what young people are like? Do they hold them to a depressingly low standard?

Posted by: Eric Deamer at September 1, 2004 8:32 AM

Hmmm... we've had twin airline bombings in Russia, twin bus bombings in Israel, the murder of 16? hostages, and now a new hostage situation in Russia.

Do the Dems really want to return to treating this sort of thing as an international law-enforcement matter or go off on some fevered and futile hunt for someone to negotiate with and something to negotiate about, or do they want to fight against the people who blieve such things are valid tactics?

Have the tinfoil hat crowd yet speculated that the events in Israel are the work of Mossad for the purpose of helping Their BushPuppet get re-elected and/or Putin trying to do the Bushitler a favor?

Terrorism needs to be confronted, relentlessly, with or without the support of John Kerry, or the US Democratic Party, or the UN, or France. Lead, follow, get out of the way, or get stomped - those are the options I see as valid.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 8:38 AM

Eric Deamer,

I think you're correct in your Age Dynamic Re The Bush Twins assesmment. There's an exception, but I'll come back to that.

Those of us, ummm...., mature enough to have daughters that age are somewhat prone to look at them and see them as fairly typical of the age group. Not the brightest bulbs on the tree but well within normal ranges for decent kids. Additionally we know full well that not all that many 22 year olds could have stood up in front of a packed MSG crowd and gotten 2 words out of their mouths - cringe inducing or otherwise. From us they would typically get a "passing grade" - they'd be welcome in our homes as friends of our own brats and they'd almost certainly make us laugh here and there rather than cringe.

The 30-something crowd is not far enough removed from that age to make a reasonable assessment. They may, or may falsely remember themselves, as much more mature and capable. Of course few, if any, had to face being POTUS's brats and doing a schtick of any sort on national TV at MSG. They aren't willing to give them a pass for simply not dropping dead of stage fright and they tend to think of them in terms of whether they'd be willing to date them or have them as friends if only they were, maybe, a bit older.

We see them as kids, they see them as something more like contemporaries. We judge kids much less harshly than we do our contemporaries.

A little further removed from the "near contemporaries" age range is the folks old enough to have kids somewhere around half The Twins age. That age group probably splits roughly down the middle with some figuring they'll be happy if their own turn out similarly OK and the other half still harboring some Delusions of Offspring Granduer where Their Brats would surely have presented themselves as the Toni Blair Twins of Young Adult National COnvention Presentations.

I mentioned an exception to this. We had someone in this or a nearby thread who, I think, illustrates the point. This group I'll describe as the Aristocrats Who Think They are Meritocrats But Base Their Entire Measure of Meritocratic Worthiness on SAT Scores and Selectivity of College Acceptances. They'll mature far enough to add GPA into that and, maybe, Degree Snobbery, but no further. This group will belittle the Bush Twins.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 8:55 AM

I'll hope y'all will forgive me for blathering out a couple personal anecdotes here, but they were brought to mind by the Bush Twins at the RNC at The Garden portion of this thread.

The first is My Favorite Memory about Stage Fright. Once upon a time My Brats did a couple years of childrens theater. One of the productions (using the term loosely) they did was Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. They were dwarves. The "theater company", such as it was, was having some difficulty staffing the show at one point and my Better Two-Thirds conned a friend's brat into taking a dwarf part. (I had the distinct and very amusing pleasure of being back-stage through all of this.)

Everything went just dandy through rehearsals but eventually it came time for the friend's brat to actually go out and perform before a real audience. Well, the Poor Little Tyke (5 or 6 yrs old, maybe 7) was siezed by unbearable stage fright and, no kidding, planted feet and arms sqaurely against a door jam, tears streaming down her little face, and shouting "I don't want to be a dork!" (for those who missed the punchline, the kid thought the name of the play was Snow White and the Seven Dorks). I guess if you gotta 'splain it, it wasn't all that funny. Sorry.)

Anecdote Two happened last evening. My Baby is now a college frosh. She's long past any significant issues with stage fright. A required frosh course for her is Public Speaking. She had the first class in that yesterday. Since I was speaking to her last evening I naturally asked how she like the class and was surprised to hear a tone of perturbence coming from her. It seems the prof had told those in the class who felt nervous about the idea of public speaking to raise their hands. According to My Baby, most raised their hands but a few, her included, didn't. The prof apparently promptly set about accusing those who didn't raise their hands of being "cowards" who were afraid to admit their anxiety. My Baby apparently got her back up about this and wound up in mild catfight with the prof insisting that it had nothing to do with cowardice because she wasn't the least bit nervous about public speaking (she's done a fair bit of it) and the prof insisting that everyone was nervous about it and, therefore, she must simply be afraid to admit to anxiety. She's was in quite a little snit about it. Made me laugh since now I know she'll have to work that much harder to recover the 5 points she surely lost by daring to disagree with an Education Professional ;)

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 9:20 AM

Knuckle--

Good to get off that other thread, eh? Finally found some peace and quiet out on Roger's deck. (BTW, have Charlie and John Moore chosen their seconds yet? I heard it's going to be RPGs at 100 meters.)

For those of us who have been interviewed on the air with a couple-hundred thousand people tuning in, it is a truly terrifying experience. I know the Bush twins are no longer strangers to the klieg lights, but it would scare the jezebels out of me.

Oh, and Knuckle? One other thing: It's not Bushitler. It's Bu$hitler.

Posted by: Fresh Air at September 1, 2004 9:42 AM

Fresh Air,

I thought they'd settled on RPGs at 100 meters also, but now I heard that Charlie's waffling and wants Skilsaws hand-to-hand. John's second headed for the hills as soon as he heard RPGs and Charlie's bolted when he heard Skilsaws. I introduced them to one of those Lippizaner guys in the Napolean hats who said he just loves duels and would second whomever, but now their fighting over who gets stuck with a Frog Lookin' Dude on a White Horse. They'll work it out somehow, but I ain't investing any of my single-malt to calm them down.

Thanks for the correction re: Bu$hitler.

Did Witchita get permission yet from the neighbor to anchor the trapeeze guide wires in his driveway? I told him that to ask permission is too seek denial but he's on that damned libertarian kick again and thinks everybody can work everything out. I say skip the silly middle-ground and just do Anarchy on Demand, but he's been reading about Contractarianism so there's no tellin' him nuttin' no more. We didn't budget for driveway repairs for neighbors and I don't see how he's gonna negotiate his way around that.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 9:59 AM

Dear Eric:

As an Old Dad, I can tell you that it's not that we disrespect the younger generation, far from it. It's just that we have much more experience with being ridiculous, and, thus, are more tolerant.

Find a picture, any picture of 20 somethings circa 1973. Plaid baggies, platform shoes, four inch wide belts, six inch wide ties, awful fumanchus, and never let it be forgotten, we made disco popular.

See what I mean?

Posted by: Old Dad at September 1, 2004 10:38 AM

Old Dad,

Speak for yourself. I never wore a 6 inch wide tie with plaid baggies. A fringed suede vest, maybe, but no ties.

(BTW, you had to go there, dincha!)

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 10:46 AM

While Arnold was off in NYC telling his immigrant's tale and trying to make the GOP look as compassionate as possible, some immigrants to California were giving him a headache.

From 8/25: [CA State Sen. Gil Cedillo] hopes to rally support today with a new plan to give driving privileges to illegal residents... A bold, visible mark [on the driver's licenses to identify the holder as an illegal alien] would be nothing more than a scarlet letter that invites discrimination, much like the Star of David on Jews in Nazi Europe, Cedillo maintained.

Cedillo's bill passed and now awaits Arnold's veto.

One might ask, if immigrants are so good, how could they say such bad things about Arnold? Shouldn't the GOP have made the distinction between legal immigration and illegal immigration, rather than attempting to portray all immigration as good?

And, shouldn't Arnold partially blame George Bush for allowing so many illegal aliens to come into California and thereby increasing Gil Cedillo's power?

Posted by: Lonewacko at September 1, 2004 10:47 AM

Darleen

Laura is a class act. She's the teacher you meet at back-to-school night and start thanking God she's at the school for your kid and would wish your kid could have her through college!

I love this description!

Knucklehead

I was reading through your comment, which I hadn't recognized as being from you (different subject matter than usual? I don't know) and I kept thinking, "Wow, what a great comment!" and "Boy, I'm glad this guy has joined the gang!"

Then it was you!

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 10:56 AM

Wacko:

The radical left never misses an attempt to degrade the Holocaust.

I think that Arnold will not surrender to those who wish to confuse the status of illegal and legal aliens. Arnold did not sneak into the US. He applied as was accepted under the immigration laws. Someone who is in the country illegally has no right other then due process for his deportation.

Posted by: jerry at September 1, 2004 10:58 AM

Knuckle--

Skilsaws hand-to-hand? Yikes!

It occurs to me the San Juan River is roughly between the two of them. Maybe Sage 5-weights and black wooly buggers at 100 feet below the dam? First one to slip and fall into the 42-degree water loses.

I don't know what's up with Wichita. Every time I think he's settled down, he goes and gets all jumpy again. Must be that Mid-Plains light and space that really put the zap on his head.

Posted by: Fresh Air at September 1, 2004 11:02 AM

data point

I've mentioned many, many times that I am a "lifelong Democrat voting for Bush."

I've also mentioned, not quite as many times, that my reactions & emotions are Deeply Mainstream.

i.e., if I am having an reaction or emotion, five billion other people are having the exact same reaction or emotion at the exact same time. I am a Walking Cliche.

My position since 9-11 has been, OK, I'm done with the Democrats. Enough!

But I won't become a Republican.

I'm an Independent.

That's been my position.

Last night, watching the entire evening, I was thinking, Hey! I like these people! They're fun! I like the way they think!

Maybe I should join the Republican Party!

I'm serious.

I was thinking all those things, exclamation marks included.

This is why, I assume, it's good to have the giggling twins on stage giving their stupid speech; why it's good to have Arnold unselfconsciously saying he became a Republican because Richard Nixon wasn't a socialist; why it's good to have Laura Bush doing anything she does, any time, any place.

As polarized as the country seems now to be, as few genuine undecideds as there are, Rove & c. are looking to the future as well as to this election. They are trying to build the party.

People like me are ripe for the recruiting, and last night went a long way towards making the sale. Rove doesn't need to persuade me to vote for Bush; I'm already doing that. I've contributed to the campaign.

But it probably is a good idea to persuade me to begin thinking of myself as a Republican, for fundraising reasons if nothing else.

You probably don't recruit people like me by being All War All The Time. So I think Roger's objection that the twins are giggly-in-a-time-of-war is almost certainly wrong when it comes to the objective of bringing new people into the "Big Tent."

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 11:08 AM

All,

Good thread.

I agree with Jamie Irons when he talks about the value and attractiveness of authenticity.

Laura Bush seems like a self-aware person, confident in who she is, also in what she believes, and is able to bring that to her relationships.

I thought the part of her speech that was most compelling was when she talked about witnessing her husband during troubled and difficult times. Bearing witness can be difficult. She comes off as strong, loving, empathetic, and quite capable of having lasting and meaningful connection to her husband.

Amidst the hyperbole and invective, we lose sight of the fact that these people, are human, and how terribly difficult it must be to live the way they do. And no, I am not talking about wealth, or power, I am talking about scrutiny, lack of privacy, and the stress they must be under. This is not, "I feel sorry for the poor, pitiful Celebrities", but rather, an awareness of the solemn and difficult task it must be to be the Commander in Chief, leader of the Free World, and responsible for the protection of military and civilian alike.

If the Twins read off policy talking points, or seemed in any way partisan, that would have been creepy. I thought they were appealing as young, flirty, provocative, irresponsible 22 year olds.

(BTW) I only listened to them on the radio, I don't have a TV, being a curmudgeon and all.

Posted by: MeTooThen at September 1, 2004 11:10 AM

Was Arnold in NYC on 8/25? Let's assume he wasn't in CA. So, what's the nature of your complaint here? Are you suggesting that if the CA Governor would have been "in town" he coulda-shoulda-woulda prevented the CA legislature from passing a bill and sending it to the Governor for signature or veto? By what method? Perhaps Jackbooted Brownshirts might have been employed.

nothing more than a scarlet letter that invites discrimination, much like the Star of David on Jews in Nazi Europe, Cedillo maintained.

Nuttin' like hyperbole during campaign season! Is someone suggesting that illegal immigrants wear this "scarlet letter" or "Star of David" attached to their foreheads or clothing?

Shouldn't the GOP have made the distinction between legal immigration and illegal immigration, rather than attempting to portray all immigration as good?

Could you enlighten me? When has the GOP failed to make a distinction between legal and illegal immigration? And how does the GOP portray all immigration as good? Help me out here.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 11:11 AM

Catherine,

Then it was you!

Believe me, from the bottom of my heart, the last thing I wanted was to bring you such profound disappointment. ;)

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 11:21 AM

Catherine--

About us Republicans:

About 15 years ago there was an uprising in India where several hundred beturbaned Sikhs went on a rampage with their ceremonial, but very sharp, swords. A bunch of innocent people were killed. I don't remember what they were upset about exactly. But I remember asking an Indian friend of mine, a Sikh named Sonu, to explain it to me.

I said, "Sonu, what's the deal with these guys? Are they crazy or what?"

And he said, "No, just a little agitated. Sikhs aren't crazy. We're actually a good bunch of fellas once you get to know us."

Just watch out if we get angry.

Posted by: Fresh Air at September 1, 2004 11:22 AM

Catherine

But it probably is a good idea to persuade me to begin thinking of myself as a Republican, for fundraising reasons if nothing else.

You raise a very good point. By the way, you do have a website or blog, don't you? When I click on your name, it just takes me to www.optline.net. It looks like your email address is being converted into a website.

Posted by: Lola at September 1, 2004 11:22 AM

Hey everyone, I have a question, esp. for any MA residents.

A friend of mine here in Boston says that the major TV networks did not cover the DNC at all--she said it was on cable only. I thought the major broadcast stations were going to cover the DNC and the RNC--three hours each--but I never actually checked. Is she right?

Posted by: Bostonian at September 1, 2004 11:29 AM

MeTooThen,

Thanks for making those points. Imagine what any of us would feel like to have our 22 year old daughter(s) subject to this level of scrutiny and criticism based upon a few minutes of throw away silliness in front of an audience. I remember once watching the face of father who was hearing the evaluation that his young daughter "should think about taking up another sport because she has no aptitude for this one and we are reaching the level where I am afraid for her safety."

It would be nice if involving yutes this young was not somehow expected and demanded.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 11:30 AM

All,

Let me add this with regard to Arnold.

I thought his speech was especially powerful. Again, I only heard it on the radio, so I have no idea how it came off visually.

He linked several important themes in an amazing way.

Arnold recounts his penniless but hopeful escape from the Boot of Soviet Socialism and then embraces Republicanism through listening to Nixon talk about free-enterprise and limited government in comparison to Humphrey's Liberalism come Socialism.

He gives thanks to the United States for all he has, and reminds those still in Eastern Europe and elsewhere that not for the United States they would still be under the Soviet Boot, an homage to Reagan.

Nice linkage of past to present, Peace through Strength, Prosperity through Individual Enterprise, Military Service as Noble, the United States as the vanguard for Democracy, not the UN...the list goes on and on.

Full Disclosure: I voted for Gray Davis before I voted against him, and would have voted to remove him, but was out of the country. As a registered voter in California, I would vote for Arnold if he ran again for Gov.

Posted by: MeTooThen at September 1, 2004 11:37 AM

Dear Knuckle:

And let's not forget pastel polyester leisure suits. Not that I ever owned one.

And we thought nothing could be worse than Watergate. Can you say Jimmy Carter?

Sorry, didn't really mean to ruin your afternoon.

A major difference between the Bush twins and me--besides the fact that they are young attractive women and related to the President, and I'm a crusty old fart--is that none of the incredibly ridiculous things that I did were caught on tape.

Posted by: Old Dad at September 1, 2004 11:54 AM

...none of the incredibly ridiculous things that I did were caught on tape.

I escaped prosecution also. Isn't the statute of limitations a wonderful thing?

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 11:58 AM

They seemed like very normal 22 year girls, for better or for worse.

For better, I think. They don't have the perpetual sneer on their faces like Kerry's daughters do, looking down on everyone.

Posted by: JeremyR at September 1, 2004 12:11 PM

Eric Deamer--hi!

Haven't seen you around here for awhile (though maybe I missed something).

The whole trotting the family out thing is silly when either party does it. AS's speech should have been at the end, as it was the only substantive one. With the lame personal color speeches, the whole evening was a wash, and I felt silly watching some of that stuff.

OK, this confirms it.

I had been assuming from your name--Eric--that you were a guy.

Now I'm positive.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:11 PM

Eric Deamer--hi!

Haven't seen you around here for awhile (though maybe I missed something).

The whole trotting the family out thing is silly when either party does it. AS's speech should have been at the end, as it was the only substantive one. With the lame personal color speeches, the whole evening was a wash, and I felt silly watching some of that stuff.

OK, this confirms it.

I had been assuming from your name--Eric--that you were a guy.

Now I'm positive.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:11 PM

Hey----that double-post wasn't my fault.

Damn TypeKey!

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:12 PM

lindenen

just because you're a giddy airhead doesn't mean you might not also be a reasonably intelligent person with a 4.0 gpa.

OK, someone should put that on a bumper sticker.

Or a greeting card.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:14 PM

Mr. Vee

Wow!

First time out of the gate, and a terrific comment.

Except, of course, for the last paragraph on Laura & the girls, which is deeply wrong and misguided.

I'm loving the Huge Gaping Sex Difference in this thread.

Normally I'm slightly dismissive of SEX DIFFERENCES, if only because I've heard WAY too much about them due to watching WAY TOO MANY episodes of ROSEANNE.

No more.

From now on my attitude is:

Men Are From Some Place.
Women Are From Some Place Else.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:20 PM

Knucklehead

If anyone's got Section P handy, have a look at Nagourney on P8.

I'm sorry.

I don't believe I will be able to do that.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:22 PM

Richard McEnroe

This is classic vaudeville strategy. You open with a few strong acts to nail the audience in their seats, then a kid act, then an animal act (substitute a few close-ups of Michael Moore), then the ventriloquist and his dummy

OK, that's just effing brilliant.

And true.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:23 PM

Catherine,

I'm loving the Huge Gaping Sex Difference in this thread.

You're not getting away with hit and run, Young Lady. You just sit yourself down right this minute and tell us what the devil you're talking about with the Viva Le Gaping Difference stuff.

Posted by: Knucklehead at September 1, 2004 12:24 PM

David Thomsom

The only thing that truly matters are their impact on the swing voters. Will the Republican convention push up the President Bush�s poll numbers by at least another 5-6 points?

My understanding, based on interviews with Mathew Dowd, is that the Bush campaign thinks there are at most 5-6% of voters who are genuinely undecided; I believe he said the figure Bush could reasonably expect to pick up is 3% at most.

As well, apparently all undecideds are moderates or conservatives. There are no undecided liberals.

I don't know what exactly the convention is aimed at, whether to pull in that tiny number of undecideds or to build towards the future, but their main strategy in terms of winning this election is to turn out the evangelical vote through direct, personal contact.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:28 PM

I have to say I found the twins a riot, as in a riot of silliness and evidence that in fact you don't have to work hard in life to do well. to watch the daughters of a mulitmillionaire only be able to laugh as giddy teenagers only reminded me that they could barely get into college and were clearly not, despite the best possible benefits of unearned wealth and connections, able to make it into a university that was competitive. The poor dears.

That's right, neither Yale nor UT Austin is competetive. After all, Yale's down to number 3 nationwide now.

Another goddamn moron.

Does someone queue up one idiotic troll for us every couple of days, is that it?

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) at September 1, 2004 12:38 PM

Erik

I thought Arnolds speech was very powerful. Anyone that has lived close to socialism can identify with his story about living close to the Soviet Union, being afraid to be taken away at a whim

Absolutely. I found the car story riveting, and moving.

I also loved the Nixon story.

It reminded me of a musical playing in England called RAT PACK, which is about Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin & Sammy Davis Jr.

The musical is so loving towards America it could have been written by Ronald Reagan himself.

But what was interesting about the America-love in the play was that, being the work of a playwright who is not himself American, it extended to elements of the U.S. experience no American would ever smile about.

The play was affectionate and indulgent towards the Mafia, for instance, which the playwright seemed to think of as a cute organization of gruff Italian-American men speaking in cute New Jersey accents.

And it included an affectionate, indulgent joke about the Ku Klux Klan!

Dean Martin tells the joke.

He says, "So I asked Sammy--Sammy, what do you do when you're driving through Mississippi and the Ku Klux Klan is chasing you and they're going 60? And Sammy says to me, 'I go 70!'"

YIKES!

No American would ever, ever, ever make a cute joke about the Ku Klux Klan chasing a black man through Mississippi. Nor should they. The Ku Klux Klan will never be a subject of light humor in America.

But in RAT PACK everything about America is a cause for benign indulgence and/or outright affection.

That was Arnold and Nixon.

No American would say, "I became a Republican because of Richard M. Nixon" even if it were true.

But Arnold can say it, and coming from Arnold that story has the innocence of a newcomer to a happy land.

Posted by: Catherine at September 1, 2004 12:44 PM

I thought they'd settled on RPGs at 100 meters also, but now I heard that Charlie's waffling and wants Skilsaws hand-to-hand. John's second headed for the hills as soon as he heard RPGs and Charlie's bolted when he heard Skilsaws. I introduced them to one of those Lippizaner guys in the Napolean hats who said he just loves duels and would second whomever, but now their fighting over who gets stuck with a Frog Lookin' Dude on a White Horse. They'll work it out somehow, but I ain't investing any of my single-malt to calm them down.

Now, now. I don't drink.

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) at September 1, 2004 12:45 PM

One might ask, if immigrants are so good, how could they say such bad things about Arnold? Shouldn't the GOP have made the distinction between legal immigration and illegal immigration, rather than attempting to portray all immigration as good?

Only if they believe it. There's a pretty significant subset, like me but unlike Tom Tancredo and Michelle Malkin (which actually kinda freaks me out, honestly) who think that anyone who makes the effort to come here deserves to be here.

Posted by: Charlie (Colorado) at September 1, 2004 12:48 PM

Hmmm.

1. Bush twins.

They weren't supposed to be good at this. That's the point. They're flightly, giggling young women more interested just about anything other than poltics. It's reminder that Bush might be President, but he's still got the same aggravation as a father of two young daughters. Even with the Secret Service to help.

Their role was to be themselves. To charm, if possible. If they didn't charm, then they reminded people that Bush is a father with a bucketfull of antacids like the father of every other daughter out there.

2. Laura Bush.

Her role was simple and she did it well. She is the representation of the dedicated housewife to the nation. That's easy for her because she largely is a housewife by nature. Or at least she seems so. Frankly after the varied machinations of Hillary, Laura was a very welcome relief.

3. Arnold.

Economic girly men? Richard Nixon?

Kick ass! :)

Posted by: ed at September 1, 2004 12:53 PM

Hmmm.

"Only if they believe it. There's a pretty significant subset, like me but unlike Tom Tancredo and Michelle Malkin (which actually kinda freaks me out, honestly) who think that anyone who makes the effort to come here deserves to be here."

Actually I'm a naturalized citizen from South Korea and I'm utterly opposed to all illegal immigration. You do NOT want to know what my solution is to illegal immigration.

Needless to say it would get me denounced by the ACLU.

Posted by: ed at September 1, 2004 12:54 PM

Hmmmm.

"Does someone queue up one idiotic troll for us every couple of days, is that it?"

Yup. We need that you know.

We need people, who've never graduated from Harvard's MBA program, to call Bush, who did graduate, a moron.

It's even better when they hold up a politician or celebrity as a representative of the acceptable intellgensia, and it turns out that person hasn't ever graduated high school let alone college.

Gives me a good laugh.

Posted by: ed at